Talk:Arnett McMillan/@comment-27788729-20160523202720/@comment-28400905-20160530231340
@Eevee: Sorry, very sorry, I thought I did read it all, did I misunderstand something? Sorry. What I mean when I say "Freezng cannot create emotions, only communicate what is already there" is that, canonically, Freezing is just a matter of people's hearts becoming synchronized, right, so anything Elly feels in Kazuya's Freezing is already in her heart, because Freezing doesn't create feelings, it's just described as synchronizing hearts. Isn't that right? I've tried to stay as close to the definition, I think, as possible. When you say the emotional stimulus isn't 'real' but generated by an 'outside influence' does that mean you're saying Elly doesn't voluntarily feel and think those things she said? That they were against her will? Also, about 'the drug was talking', in real life just because someone's drunk doesn't mean we say that if they do something that it wasn't what they wanted. Normally if someone's intoxicated don't we say that it lowers their I inhibitions? This is hard for me to put into words but I'd like to ask the , if you think what happened is just like Elly getting drunk, doesn't that then still mean that Elly meant everything she said? I mean if Elly's mind and free will are in no way being manipulated and controlled then everything she said, thought and felt are just stuff she does genuinely think and believe, isn't that true? I get that you say shooting a laser at someone isn't love, which sounds like an indie song to me, but at the same time doesn't wanting to offer up everything you have to someone sound like you love them? I get that you're trying to say I'm only looking at one part of it and ignoring their anger but isn't it true both ways? Why do you then ignore their genuine and voluntary declarations of devotion and love for Kazuya? Shouldn't Kazuya's Freezing being stronger not affect the emotional aspect? I mean isn't all Freezing, by definition, just a matter of synchronizing hearts? I think you misunderstood my example a bit, the drug doesn't make my spouse hot for the stranger or have an emotional bond with the stranger (I find off putting he idea that a drug could just make someone have an emotional relationship) all the drug does, like Freezing, is synchronize my spouse's heart with the stranger, and then everything she does after; offer him everything, proclaim him her master and such, is just her acting on her synchronized heart. Wouldn't that feel awful? Also I just really get sad about the idea that emotional relationships can just be 'created' without any interaction or experience. That Kazuya can just snap his fingers and make an emotional relationship between him and Elly without even really knowing each other just makes me so sad cause I don't know how emotions work like that. Isn't the ability to just make an emotional bond out of nothing already mind control? Or emotion control? Why would Elly get her Stigma removed? Sorry, I know it's not relevant, I'm just curious why you think that would happen. Isn't the fact that Elly herself said all those things, of her own free will, evidence that she loves Kazuya? Something else I'm just a little bothered by, was Elly even violated? I'd like to think she was, that it was against her will, but I also wanted to believe that she was mind controlled, and didn't mean what she said, so I'm just not sure. As for the last part, sorry, what I should have said is that I've never seen and never will see a Pandora ever express as much happiness and affection for someone other than Kazuya. The most intimacy and care I'll ever see Elly show someone is to Kazuya, not André, and that's really sad to me. I just want to make something clear, what do you mean when you say Kazuya makes the feelings 'surface'? Does that mean you agree the feelings are there always but Kazuya just brings them out? Because I thought your position was Elly's feelings for Kazuya aren't really, so I'm not sure what you mean, sorry. Even if we do see André again it'll never be to address this issue, or to show that Elly cares more about him, or feels stronger for him, then she did under Kazuya's Freezing, so it'll just leave me sad because I'll never know for sure if she's happier with André or under Kazuya's Freezing, you know? Besides the Limiters don't really have a function anymore, do they, because they can't Freeze any of the enemies anymore and their Ereinbar Sets dint help their partners at all. I'm not arguing that Elly, or anyone, has always felt something special towards Kazuya. I'm just pointing out that Elly, Arnett and Ticy, when they're hearts are synchronized with Kazuya, all three express more love and devotion to him then they ever express to anyone else, and if it's not mind control then it means that they're expressing it of their own free wil. I'm not saying always since, as you point out, it doesn't make sense for a Pandora who's never met Kazuya to be able to feel that way. I just really wish that the happiest and most intimate we'll ever see Elly was with André and not with Kazuya. I mean imagine how upset people would be if Satellizer's happiest and most intimate scenes were with someone other than Kazuya? I just feel the same way because I like the other couples. I'm sorry to waste your time like this, this issue just really hurts my heart. I know I'm an overly emphatic person, I've always been, I see those chapters and what I think is, wow poor André and Morrison, how just this make them feel, to know that their partners would of their own free will say and think such things, to be so completely ignored. Then it's just made worse because no one even seems to care how hurtful this could be. How painful it must be for André to watch Elly, who he risked his life for and was close to for years, in a second start having mind orgasms over Kazuya and proclaiming herself his obedient servant. Wouldn't that hurt? I think it would.